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মজার ব্যাপার হলো - এখানে কমেন্ট পোস্টিং-এর একটা অপশন আছে। কিন্তু আপনি কমেন্ট পাঠালে সেটা প্রথমে মডারেটেড হবে (এবং প্রয়োজনমত এডিটেডও। যেমন আমার কমেন্টের ক্ষেত্রে একটা ওয়েবসাইটের লিংক বাদ দিয়ে কমেন্টটি পাবলিশ করা হয়েছে)। লেখকের মন্তব্য ছাড়া কোন কমেন্ট পোস্টেড হয় না। লেখক কমেন্ট দেখবার আগে একজন ওয়েব অ্যাডমিনিস্ট্রের সেই কমেন্ট রিভিউ করে।

আপনার যদি আমার সাথে এই লেখকের প্রকাশিত (এবং সম্পাদিত) এবং অপ্রকাশিত তর্ক-বিতর্ক দেখবার মত সময় থেকে থাকে, তবে নিচের পোস্টগুলোতে একবার চোখ বুলিয়ে নিতে পারেন।

আমার পোস্টঃ

I am really interested to know how you will validate those statistics from your "Islamic" perspective -"According to New York Times (3/28/71) 10,000 people were killed; New York Times (3/29/71) 5,000-7,000 people were killed in Dhaka; The Sydney Morning Herald (3/29/71) 10,000 - 100,000 were killed; New York Times (4/1/71) 35,000 were killed in Dhaka during operation searchlight." (Source: genocidebangladesh.org) And what do you think when a Pakistani soldier confesses that - "…… we were told to kill the hindus and Kafirs (non-believer in God). One day in June, we cordoned a village and were ordered to kill the Kafirs in that area. We found all the village women reciting from the Holy Quran, and the men holding special congregational prayers seeking God’s mercy. But they were unlucky. Our commanding officer ordered us not to waste any time.”(Source: genocidebangladesh.org) Well, I believe you may argue that these sources do not proof anything as they are from "secular" sources. There is a huge number of videos uploaded in the same website I am really interested to know you deny those visual facts from your "Islamic" perspective. These video clips might be captured by secular cameras but what they captured happened, right? What do you think? I really love this Quranic quote - "If anyone slays a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if s/he slew all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if s/he saved the life of all people." (Qur'an 5:32) I am really interested to know how you will explain that all murdered Dhaka university students in the video actually were slayed for their "mischief".

লেখকের পোস্টঃ

Thanks both of you for your comments. (আমার হাজবেন্ডও তাকে কমেন্ট পাঠিয়েছিলেন। সেজন্য এই ভদ্র(!)লোক আমাদের দুজনকেই ধন্যবাদ জানিয়েছেন।)

It is unfortunate that time and again you people fail to grasp the wider intellectual reasoning behind an ideology. Is it really that hard to grasp? Your comment is typical of those I regularly get from Awami secularist section of Bangladesh. It seems they are locked into beating the same drumbeat. There is no point arguing over the number of dead. Even if I accept the grossly inflated numbers (i.e 3 million), what point it will prove? Do you really think that’s the main issue here? Before arguing over something, you ought to make clear your stance. Do you want to prove that those killings prompted the breakage of Pakistan? It’s quite apparent that by constantly emphasizing these numbers you are keen to show exactly that. On the contrary, that’s not what your leaders said. It’s no secret that all those conspiracy started well before 1971. Infact, the Awami League often claim with great pride that their movement started as far back as 1952. What’s your take on this? Whatever happened on 71 were the direct consequence and NOT the reason for the freedom movement.

Even if you insist on justifying the independence movement, by spreading typical lies about systemic rape, mass killings by Pakistan army and pro state activists- it will not serve your purpose. Immediately after independence, Awami league activists and its paramilitary forces killed more Bengali’s then what the Pakistani army did during the civil war. Even now, there student bodies celebrate completing century of rapes. So what will be your next action? Since you are the proponent of the bigoted idea of justifying the breaking of an entire country based solely on rape, killings committed by individuals- then why didn’t you do the same with Bangladesh?

I have never denied that there were incidences of rape and killings, but those were isolated cases and not a systemic act perpetrated by pro Pakistanis. Peoples like you even came up with the preposterous notion that portrays the Pro Pakistan ideology as the promoter of rape and mass killings. With no shortage of naive believers, anti Pakistan historians also depict respected and renowned religious personalities as rapists! In their books, you will never find an iota of space for those Bihari’s and pro Pakistani Bengalis- brutally killed, raped and looted by the so-called freedom fighters. However, in their books you will never fail to find imaginary stories about the bravery(?) of Mukti Bahini, while in reality they couldn’t even capture a single district city by themselves. Only when India entered the war, their hapless state began to change. However, these writers’ lies are so deep that even India’s decisive contribution is rarely mentioned. Bangladesh's history is full of such lies. And to protect such lies they violently resist any attempt to spread the truth.


Now regarding the number of casualties in the 71 war, any unnecessary loss of human life is greatly regrettable. Civil wars bound to create human sufferings and those who orchestrated such war must be held accountable. When Sheikh Mujib started the treachery with the direct support from India, he knew perfectly well the consequence of such heinous action. Do not try to elude from that fact. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario. Bangladesh is already politically polarised country based on primarily Awami League and BNP. Now Allah forbid, if there comes a situation that these two parties engage in bloody confrontation, what would you do? Will you break the country based on the narrow political difference? Judging from your comment it seems you would. As a Muslim, you ought to find it disheartening when you study the history. From Bengal the Pakistan movement begun and in the span of 25 years it is the Bengali’s who destroyed it with the help of India. Indeed, that generation in 71 were not as enlightened and far-sighted as those in 47. Being the majority, rather then contributing to the prosperity and defense of Pakistan, resorted only to constant gibberish of blaming our every failures to those in West Pakistan.



If you are a secularist or nationalist then I don’t see any point of arguing as for them it’s perfectly reasonable to feel elated over the breakage of a Muslim country following a narrow nationalistic line. But when I see people like you attempting to use Quranic verses out of context to support that treachery, I find it totally unacceptable. When it comes to treating such traitors our prophet and his companions acted with iron fist, because breaking an Islamic bond with the help of infidel’s is a punishable act. Even those who rejected to give 'Jakat' to state fund was killed by Hazrat Abu Bakr - one of the most softhearted ruler. Read the Quran, you will find the verse that says creating chaos (Fitna) is more criminal act than killing a human, because such chaos destroys a Ummah. Awami League and the other secularists’ forces in Bangladesh showed its mastery in such heinous acts. There is no denying that Pakistan had plenty of problems like any other country, which could have been amicably solved by dialogue and political struggle. However, under no circumstances it justified taking arms from Kuffar’s to break the largest Muslim country. That’s the main point. When people will understand their own Islamic obligations then they will throw this Kuffar sponsored heroes to dustbin. Awami League itself understands that, hence you see there continuous effort to stifle the propagation of Islamic thoughts. Have you ever wondered why the absolute majority of Islamic scholars, Ullama’s and all Islamic parties were against breaking of Pakistan and why the secularists depicts a Razakar, having the quintessential Muslim features (i.e having long beard, wearing prayer hat)? Did you ever ponder on their point? Can they be the promoters of rape, lootings? But such miscarriage of truth is not uncommon when criminals starts writing history. Unfortunately, your point reveals the same attitude.
Regards,

--
Dr Firoz Mahboob Kamal
http://www.firozmahboobkamal.com

আমার প্রত্যুত্তরঃ

>> Your comment is typical of those I regularly get from Awami secularist section of Bangladesh

You are trying to impose a political identity on me. It's unfair!

>> There is no point arguing over the number of dead. Even if I accept the grossly inflated numbers (i.e 3 million)

But they died, right? Even if the number was 3 million, it is never a small number. Stories of deadly struggle of 3 million families are affiliated with it. And you wrote so many stuff on the Bihari genocide. The number of Bihari people died in and after 1971 is smaller than the number of murdered Bangali people. I interviewed many Bihari/Urdu speaking people and they said it to me. Now an enlightened Bengali has come and is claiming that the number is higher than the number of Bengali murder. It seems like you love Urdu speaking people more than they love themselves.

Yes, number shouldn't be a point of argument. However, even if a single person is murdered...that appears obviously as a point of argument.

>> Do you want to prove that those killings prompted the breakage of Pakistan? It’s quite apparent that by constantly emphasizing these numbers you are keen to show exactly that.

You are assuming a lot of stuff! I never said that those killings prompted the breakage of Pakistan. The necessity of this breakage started when they first denied our claim for our mother tongue. I am saying that. I don't care what Awami league says about it. Stop blind assumptions!

>> On the contrary, that’s not what your leaders said.
Who is my leader? I never declared any affiliation with any leader! Why are you repeatedly trying to impose an identity over me???????????????

>> by spreading typical lies about systemic rape, mass killings by Pakistan army and pro state activists- it will not serve your purpose.
I have interviewed and worked with Bengali raped women and also Urdu speaking men and women. I know that casualties happened on both sides. But you are totally denying Bengali casualties and over-emphasizing Bihari casualties. It's shocking!

>> Since you are the proponent of the bigoted idea of justifying the breaking of an entire country based solely on rape, killings committed by individuals- then why didn’t you do the same with Bangladesh?
I am sick of your assumptions! I never said that all those rapes and killings was the only cause for breakage of the country. Breakage of a country is never an easy thing. I just asked how you support the party who initiated all those killings and rapes.

>> those were isolated cases and not a systemic act perpetrated by pro Pakistanis.
I can give you specific statistics about how many raped and pregnant women aborted their babies in post war rehabilitation centers and how many "unwanted" babies were sent to foreign countries for adoption purposes. 25000 women got pregnant after those mass rapes (source: http://www.sacw.net/article581.html). Ok, forget about the official claim about 200000 rape incidents. 25000 is never a small number and the number proves that rape was never an isolated incident. Traces of so many rape camps were found where women were kept and continuously raped by those Pak army officials. I have personally interviewed some raped women and I know you are telling the false and they told me the truth.

>> you will never find an iota of space for those Bihari’s and pro Pakistani Bengalis- brutally killed, raped and looted by the so-called freedom fighters.

People have started recognizing those facts - but not from like your fundamentalist and anti-secularist perspective. Go over those readings -

C. R. Abrar (2003). The Bihari Women in Camps. Presented in the National Seminar on ‘Women in Challenging Situation in Bangladesh’. Organized by Refugee and Migratory Movements Research Unit (RMMRU) in collaboration with the British Council in CIRDAP, Dhaka on 23-24 July 2003.

Farzana, Kazi Fahmida (2008). The Neglected Stateless Bihari Community in Bangladesh: Victims of Political and Diplomatic Onslaught. In Journal of Humanities and Social Sciences. Volume:2, Issue:1. Retrieved http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cachevu3DNAvphwJ:www.scientificjournals.org/journals2008/articles/1313.pdf+the+neglected+stateless+bihari+community+in+bangladesh&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=bd on 14 April 2008.

Haq, Hamidul (2005). Child Rights and the ‘Stranded Pakistani’ Issue. In Kamal, Mesbah (Eds). Reflections on Diversity and Citizenship: Bangladesh and Beyond. Dhaka: Shrabon.


Ilias, Ahmed (2003). Biharis: The Indian Emigres in Bangladesh: An Objective Analysis. Bangladesh: Shamsul Haque Foundation. (This is a Bihari/urdu speaking person. I believe his words...but not yours even if you are Bengali)


Nahar, Sultana (2000). Biharis in Bangladesh: Present Status, Legal Impediments and Solutions. In. Abrar, Chowdhury R. (Eds.). On the Margin: Refugees, Migrants and Minorities. Dhaka: Refugee and Migratory Movements Research Unit.


Those readings deny your claim that "you will never find an iota of space for those Bihari’s and pro Pakistani Bengalis- brutally killed, raped and looted". However, I don't agree that all freedom fighters did it. Some might do it. But these are "isolated" cases...hahahaha.

>> Bangladesh is already politically polarised country based on primarily Awami League and BNP. Now Allah forbid, if there comes a situation that these two parties engage in bloody confrontation, what would you do?

hahahaha...I don't have any reason to worry about it. You and your Jamayat-e-Islami will certainly come forward to "rescue" the nation in that case!!!!!!!!!!

>> breaking an Islamic bond with the help of infidel’s is a punishable act

That was never an Islamic bond as I argued in my last email. Islam never supports the attempt of restraining a person from speaking in his/her mother toungue. Islam never supports economic and cultural discrimination against a part of a country.

>> it justified taking arms from Kuffar’s to break the largest Muslim country.

Well, you are a Muslim, right? But I hate you because of your way of thoughts. If any Hindu/Buddha/Christian person can catch my points of argument, I would certainly go for that non-Muslim person. Even if you are Muslim, I find no point for going with you. The same thing happened in 1971!

I am so sorry that my one-hour's effort will see no light of publication! You have proven yourself a coward through your attempt of restraining my voice!

- Nafisa

লেখকের ওয়েব অ্যাডমিনিস্ট্রেটরের মতামতঃ

Hi

This is the web administrator of Dr Kamal's website. Before passing your comments to Dr Kamal I just thought I should make something clear. The reason we moderate comment is because the vary nature of people like you. They are very incapable of arguing decently and often resort to the sort of manners which befits those with no confidence in their ability to defend their ideas. Unfortunately we have no choice but to apply moderation to stop this sort of intellectually challenged beings.


Before calling some one coward specially a senior a person as Dr Kamal you should've bothered to check the comment section first. You would've noticed that your comment is already published. Surely you have passed the age of learning these basic manners. Also try to have a bit more patience. Dr Kamal often give replies to those comments that might be of any benefit to other readers. He doesn't have spare times to entertain anyone's individual interests by communicating privately with them. So it is failure on your part to think you are in receipt of a private treat. We publish a comment only after receiving replies from Dr Kamal, so that visitors can compare the arguments. So it would’ve helped if you had exercised a little bit of patience. Personally, I think you should go through the whole ebook as you should’ve been able to find all the answers there instead of wasting Dr Kamal’s time by mentioning the same thing repeatedly. Although I will pass your comment to Dr Kamal, In the mean time I couldn’t resist to dig in to some silly arguments of yours. Here it goes,

1) “Yes, number shouldn't be a point of argument. However, even if a single person is murdered...that appears obviously as a point of argument.”

Here is the quote of Dr Kamal- “Civil wars bound to create human sufferings and those who orchestrated such war must be held accountable. When Sheikh Mujib started the treachery with the direct support from India, he knew perfectly well the consequence of such heinous action. Do not try to elude from that fact.”

I think the point is crystal clear, ask your beloved leader Sheikh Mujib why he instigated the civil war. You can’t blame those who dealt with those traitors. You are just keep repeating yourself. You can’t expect that you’ll be spared when you are caught red handed while doing treachery. What did u expect? That patriots will sit idle watching you Indian stooges messing with their country?

2) “I am sick of your assumptions! I never said that all those rapes and killings was the only cause for breakage of the country. Breakage of a country is never an easy thing. I just asked how you support the party who initiated all those killings and rapes.”

But Dr. Kamal.s assumptions seem to be spot on as you are just going on and on with that same rape, kill, number thing. Why do you support those rapist, traitor, infanticide Muktibahini? Why do you idolize those bandit sons of Mujib? Don’t you have shame? Your questions are like “চোরের মায়ের বড় গলা” Lol!!!

3) “I can give you specific statistics about how many raped and pregnant women aborted their babies in post war rehabilitation centers and how many "unwanted" babies were sent to foreign countries for adoption purposes.”

Isn’t that the same so-called evidence that still failed to establish conclusively the number of dead? Is this the same reliable source like Sheikh Mujibs mouth, when he uttered a random number of three million immediately after arriving from Pakistani prison? You guys surely don’t feel the necessity of a scientific study and always relied upon nonsensical hearsay. First you generate a random figure and then use deceit and fabrication to back it up.

4) “I have personally interviewed some raped women and I know you are telling the false and they told me the truth.”

Oh ya!! You seem to be a totally unbiased well mannered safe pair of hand!!! Lol!! Dream on. Whom are u kidding?

5) “People have started recognizing those facts - but not from like your fundamentalist and anti-seculariest perspective. Go over those readings –“

Lol!!! You can talk!! Those who are researching on those atrocities are not people from your ideology. Infact the references you gave are mostly Pakistani intellectuals and Bangladeshi’s like Dr Kamal. Don’t try to hijack others credit. People like you are still busy fabricating the history. No wonder why you guys feel so irritated that true history is becoming more available, day by day.

6) However, I don't agree that all freedom fighters did it. Some might do it. But these are "isolated" cases...hahahaha

No its OK. One could easily understand when you giggle as it really is funny even for you. As even u cannot say confidently those were “isolated” case. Whereas, when doctor Kamal made that statement I’m sure he said it with full trust and confidence. One cannot blame you for this lack of trust on your own brethren. Look at those criminals, i.e Kader Siddiki, Hazari, Tofael, Razzak, rapist Manik- there are hardly any character who exudes any assurance for any girl. So when you giggle it is ok.

7) >> Bangladesh is already politically polarised country based on primarily Awami League and BNP. Now Allah forbid, if there comes a situation that these two parties engage in bloody confrontation, what would you do?


hahahaha...I don't have any reason to worry about it. You and your Jamayat-e-Islami will certainly come forward to "rescue" the nation in that case!!!!!!!!!!

You are exactly right in this point. Once a traitor, always a traitor. The fact that you people shamelessly collaborated with the enemy state like India has left you guys with no credibility. It is the patriotic Islamists who will again rise to defend their country. Where as you people will be busy serving your master India. What’s the guarantee that you’ll not further break Bangladesh for every single dumb reasons? You are talking sense now. Full marks. Ha!!! ha!!

8) >> breaking an Islamic bond with the help of infidel’s is a punishable act


That was never an Islamic bond as I argued in my last email. Islam never supports the attempt of restraining a person from speaking in his/her mother toungue. Islam never supports economic and cultural discrimination against a part of a country.

You seems to me a total nitwit!!! Does making a state language prevent the use of other languages? Do present day Pakistanis only speak in Urdu? Does that make Punjabi, poshtu, sindhi obsolete? I am wondering how a comment from a nitwit like you passed the filter and end up on Dr Kamal’s desk!!! I was more then enough to destroy your flimsy arguments. Ha ha!! Who spoon fed history to you? Don’t you know we supposed to use our own brain?

9) >> it justified taking arms from Kuffar’s to break the largest Muslim country.


Well, you are a Muslim, right? But I hate you because of your way of thoughts. If any Hindu/Buddha/Christian person can catch my points of argument, I would certainly go for that non-Muslim person. Even if you are Muslim, I find no point for going with you. The same thing happened in 1971!

What a surprise!!!! I wonder why you think infidels ideology is more intuned with yours!! Lol!!! Isn’t that’s what already proven? If you were a true Muslim you would have felt ashamed that you still think you have done a great service to Islam and urself by acting as Indian stooges. Dr Kamal would be truly heart broken knowing he has no common ground with a shameless traitor!!! Ha! Ha!! Plz do a favour, don’t make you look more stupid then you already are by saying that you are a religious women/girl, but you love to serve Indians more than your own country.



I don’t know why you even bothered to argue relying on such an abject intellectual capacity. Did you go though the whole ebook? Is Bangla too hard for you? Then you can ask someone to translate that in to your mother tongue Hindi. If u still can’t understand then plz don’t bother returning. If u still wanna comment, then plz remember to attach ur education certificate, then it will be easier for me to decide whether it warrants Dr Kamal’s time and attention.

May Allah protect Bangladesh from infidel hugging traitors.

--
Web Administrator
http://www.firozmahboobkamal.com

আমি এদের কথা-বার্তার প্রতিবাদ করার ভাষা খুঁজে পাচ্ছি না। আমি এই কথোপকথন এখানে পেস্ট করলাম এই আকাঙ্ক্ষায় যে পাঠকরা যেন এদের নিঃশব্দ কিন্তু সক্রিয় আগ্রাসনের ব্যাপারে সজাগ হতে পারেন।